Dr. Wendy Slusser 00:03
Today I’ll be chatting with UCLA’s Chief of Medical Psychology, Dr. Bob Builder, and Executive Director of UCLA Counseling and Psychological Services, Dr. Nicole Green, about how to take care of our emotional health during these uncertain times. As the co- leaders of the Semel Healthy Campus Initiative MindWell Pod, Nicole and Bob will also share actionable steps and available resources for all of us to help manage stress and anxiety during COVID-19. Nicole Green – Dr. Nicole Green and Dr. Bob Builder, welcome to our podcast today. We’re so grateful you’re here taking time out of your busy days, dealing with COVID-19 and the repercussions on emotional well-being. I’d really like to know, first of all, from your professional viewpoints and standpoints – what are you seeing?
Dr. Bob Bilder 00:57
First, thanks for having us here, Wendy. It’s really great to be able to talk to you today. I can speak about what’s happening down campus at the health system a bit, where we have quite a lot going on throughout the Ronald Reagan University Medical Center in the emergency department, and then, of course, in our Resnick Neuropsychiatric Hospital – we’re coping with a lot of very serious challenges, including patients coming on with COVID-19 infections, our staff having to deal with whether or not patients have COVID-19 infections and also trying to navigate the rest of their lives at the same time. So that’s really challenging, and our health care providers, many in psychiatry and psychology, are not all used to coping with these kinds of medical illnesses, and very few people are. So it’s created a lot of unique challenges for the clinical environment and for the training environments that we all work in, and it’s been really remarkable how people have risen to the occasion and have been unbelievably dedicated and innovative in coming up with solutions to dealing with these challenges.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 02:09
So what would you say, Bob, that you’ve seen has been the most successful approaches to managing the stresses that these individuals might be undergoing?
Dr. Bob Bilder 02:19
Yeah, I think one of the key things that has been helpful is for people to try to find a sense of community, despite all the isolation that they’re experiencing, because many of our workforce are trying to do what they can from home – they’re doing telehealth – but these workers, like many other people, many of our students, staff, faculty are all also working from home. And so coming up with ways to try to bridge and build in social interactions in the midst of all this disconnected workplace activity is one of the challenges. So you know, try to leverage our technologies, the same way we are for our teleconferencing; and to have zoom dinners and other gatherings is not exactly the same as the high bandwidth person-to-person communication, but we think that it’s particularly important at times like this.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 03:12
And, Nicole, what are you finding helpful?
Dr. Nicole Green 03:14
Yes. Again, thank you, Wendy, for having me. And we’re predominantly working with the students, obviously. And two interesting things – I don’t know that we’re fully seeing the impact quite yet – but I’ll say last week was finals week of winter quarter, and we saw a significant amount of students not being able to come in or pursue treatment. But this week, which is spring break, our numbers are not that different than last year’s spring breaks, so what it’s telling me is that a number of students who are engaged in treatment, or trying to continue care, are needing care, are initiating care even with all the transition. So I think it’s really a sign of things to come. And I’m aware, just from campus meetings, how intricate and vast and depthful these changes are going to be. In terms of student housing, I know a number of students are trying to get out of leases, because they’re trying to go home; I know that many students are canceling housing contracts, are trying to determine whether or not they’re going to enroll in the fall; I know that they’re still trying to think about ways to honor the different communities around commencement; I know that they’re still trying to have student government elections. So so much of the campus is in so much flux, and given what we’re seeing in terms of students trying to initiate treatment this week, I think it’s only the beginning of sort of the distress that’s probably going to come once people settle down and have more of a routine.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 04:43
Thank you, Nicole, and thank you, Bob and Nicole, for all that you’re doing to help support people during these transitions. I’m hearing two pieces of advice that you both so well communicated in our Bruin Post – one is social distancing does not mean social isolation; and that was where I think Dr. Builder really worked on describing how you can communicate and build community, even if it means virtual. And what I’m hearing Nicole say is, not only are people willing to reach out to others and also to their therapists, but also that a sense of normalcy in the sense of getting some routines in place for this next quarter for our student bodies, in particular, will be critical for people to have a sense of community, as well. What else would you add to that, Bob or Nicole?
Dr. Nicole Green 05:38
I think I’ll just add – I think there is a balance between, because the students will be online quite a bit because of the classes and then studying online, I will say there is a tension between trying to do as much as we can virtually, but also recognizing the need – there are also so much other data about screentime and not moving, and how important it is to take breaks, to move, to get exercise where you can, and obviously being very safe about it – but that it’s really important to also take breaks and move your body and drink water and take care of all those things; because I think right now, everybody’s trying so hard to get everything moving on a virtual platform. We just want to be mindful of everything in moderation.
Dr. Bob Bilder 06:25
Yeah. And I think that just to add to what Nicole was saying, especially talking about being mindful, I think that building in some of the tools that are available, for example, through the Mindful Awareness Research Center. They’ve been having a virtual retreat over the last few days, and I think that there are a lot of tools now available online that are well-worth seeking out. And so, I know we’re all being deluged with messages, but we’re gonna try to compile some information and put that up on the HCI website. That’ll include some links to different kinds of tools you might be able to seek out and find a way to practice mindfulness on a daily basis, in addition to the other, you know, aspects of making sure you stay physically active and eating well, etc, all the aspects of living well.
Dr. Nicole Green 07:10
And I know that we are thinking with HCI, you know, recipes that you can do. I know RISE will be offering virtual and livestream yoga and meditation and mindfulness, as well, for students and staff and faculty.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 07:23
Speaking of what you can do – and I know in times of, you know, emergencies, and this is one of them, you want to make sure you’re safe, and your family’s safe, and your loved ones are safe, and then you can be able to help others; and when you get to that stage, I’ve been talking to a lot of people who are feeling almost guilty that there’s nothing they can do to help. And, you know, Dr. Ted Robles talked about, obviously, one great thing to do to help is to stay six feet apart, you know? But what else would you – what kind of advice would you give people who are starting to feel that? Where they feel like they’re not contributing to the solution.
Dr. Bob Bilder 08:02
Well, one thing, I think, you know – I think you said it very well, Wendy, that if you start with yourself, and then think about how you can bridge out to others who are in your peer group, who are in your family, who are in your broader, socially connected community – I think this is a really great time to think about, exactly, who are you connected to, both in terms of your personal social connections and also in terms of your other academic and occupational social connections. But I think that reaching out to those people in a systematic way is particularly important right now. Some people are sick, almost everybody is stressed out. So being very determined about and even making plans – “who am I going to reach out to today? And try to bring a ray of light to them.” And there’s this one other thing I wanted to mention is: the importance of managing the information flow. There was a great article that was circulated by Chris Dunkel Schetter, recently, one of the co-leads of the EngageWell Pod; and one of her colleagues down at University of California, Irvine, Roxie Silver, has worked on trauma and what happens in the public communications of that. And managing the media exposure at this time is really critical, because we can become so overwhelmed with the experiencing of the trauma and immersion in the trauma, that is particularly important to manage that, find a few trusted and credible resources, and really just check them once or twice a day. More frequent checking is not going to help. And I think as the UCLA academic community, we can help our colleagues, our peers, and others to do the same kind of management of information overload.
Dr. Nicole Green 09:41
I would agree. And I think even when reading the social media, it is also important to use some of these mindfulness and techniques of grounding yourself. That, although this is all happening, that you are at home, if you are safe, if you are healthy, or you know people that are – to remind yourself that there’s also other parts of the picture, as well, so that people don’t completely get overwhelmed and really increase their stress and anxiety reaction. I think another thing that people can do, and I’ve started to see people do, is think about ways that they can do GoFundMe pages for food for folks who are in need, or participate in some of the other charities that are popping up around this, and to be thoughtful about where they’re engaging in social media so that they’re able to be productive, as opposed to focused on fear and anxiety all the time.
Dr. Bob Bilder 10:33
There’s another neat resource that was recently disseminated by our Office of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion. And, you know, they’ve caught some ideas of how to help, particularly, folks who are in underserved communities. I mean, you can imagine the stresses we’re going through. Imagine the additional stresses for those who have extended homelessness, people who are now increasingly facing challenges to their livelihoods, unemployment, the financial stressors are only building, so I think now’s a good time to set up channels to give back.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 11:04
Yeah, so I think that there’s no question: there’s ways to give. And, you know, giving through those channels are really practical. So what I’m hearing is, not only can we give financially through GoFundMe pages, we can also be reaching out to those that we love and care about, or maybe even haven’t been in touch with that for, maybe even for a long time. The other piece I’m hearing is that with the amount of information, overload could be a really big stressor on all of us; and so we really need to maintain sort of the diet that we’ve had in the past, but now a little bit more carefully, because we’re always around a computer. I hear twice – you know, look at things twice a day, but how else could you limit your exposure, besides sort of having good self control?
Dr. Bob Bilder 11:57
One key thing is to really focus just on certain, selected information sources and just look only at those. So, I think that one thing you could do is on your, “i-things,” is turn off news alerts, so you’re not constantly being barraged and tweeted at by all kinds of news alerts that may come up. And then to, you know, if you feel you must, check out the World Health Organization site, the Centers for Disease Control site, and then UCLA Health has a pretty nicely put together website that covers the local situation, and is of immediate relevance to those in our University community. And so I think they’ve been doing a great job of managing, what are the messages, what’s real, what’s not real, and that avoids us going down rabbit holes, that can be exceptionally anxiety-provoking. I mean, I was happy to see today on a news feed that the wild and totally unsupported suspicions that the COVID-19 was created as a rogue virus – this is just insane, but this is the kind of information that’s out there. So, thank God, somebody actually put out a nice document showing, yes, this is a natural virus – not that that makes it much better for us – but I mean, to try to overcome the kind of anxiety and suspiciousness that can occur right now. I think it’s important.
Dr. Nicole Green 13:23
And I think, because, you know, especially for younger folks who are more digital natives, where if you’re not on the computer in one way, you’re on the computer in another – like, you know, Instagram or what-have-you, or looking at general social media. I think one of the other things is to really elicit some support, whether you need to do some blocking, or have a friend put a code in; because I do think that the natural inclination, you’re sitting on your computer, you’re in class, it’s passive, to turn on onto another website or open another browser is so easy. And so I really do think it’s important to think about, what can you do? Can you delay it? Can you set another homepage that’s not just social media, so that’s not where you go first, when you’re just kind of there to kind of zone out? And I do know that the tendencies to want to zone out are going to be high. So where do people turn on? It’s not really their bank page. It’s their social media, you know? So what can you do to set reasonable expectations with yourself about not always going to social media as your automatic response, and I think that that’s where a lot of younger folks really struggle.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 14:31
Some of these suggestions also lead you to – well, the GoFundMe page, by the way, there is one that’s now for helping to support restaurants to feed our health care workers, and UCLA is part of that. And they’ve just opened up a day and a half ago, and it has a very inspiring story of a group of mothers who put it together. And I think it would be something that we can definitely direct people to, who are listening to this podcast, that they could go and give $10 that will feed one health worker a meal that’s up in the front lines of COVID-19. The other thing that I’m hearing both of you say, too, is how we can rely on others to help us support us in our good habits. And how about some of the do’s that we can do? And I know one of these I’ll hand over to Bob Builder, who had a long time explaining this on one of our other podcasts about music. Tell me what music can do to make us feel better.
Dr. Bob Bilder 15:30
Music has a great capability of transporting us in a way that other kinds of communications do not have. And I’ve seen some incredible innovation among our students and staff and faculty in creating special Coronavirus playlists. So, we have not compiled them yet for the Healthy Campus Initiative, to my knowledge, but it might not be a bad idea; because I think that does help to give us a little bit of a break, and a little bit of perspective, and also some insight into some incredible senses of humor as we face, you know, what’s otherwise a very anxiety-provoking time. But I think that, yeah, finding music, finding other arts, can also be of value. I know a number of major museums around the country have begun to put their content online, so that you can actually enjoy art for free, from some of the leading museums around the world. And a number of music venues are also putting out material that you can get for free. So now’s a good time to be immersed in arts.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 16:33
That’s right. And I know I’ve quoted this before, but Oliver Sacks writes, “Music can lift us out of depression or move us to tears – it is a remedy, a tonic, orange juice for the ear. But for many of my neurological patients, music is even more – it can provide access, even when no medication can, to movement, to speech, to life. For them, music is not a luxury, but a necessity.” And I think it could be a necessity for all of us in this time of pandemic, this COVID-19 pandemic.
Dr. Bob Bilder 17:04
Yes, beautiful expression. And in building in time for various things – building in some time for music is a great idea. And you know, Dalida Arakelian, of our Mindful Music Program, has continued to put some concerts online, even though some of the artists had to be sequestered, operating independently. Still, I think it’s great for us to be able to come together as a community, and listen to music together, and share that experience.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 17:32
I know, Nicole, your heart is in really giving people a sense of control, and self-efficacy around their own well-being, and creating resilience, and I’d love to hear what your thoughts are about what one can do near that.
Dr. Nicole Green 17:46
I think this is, you know, from a bigger perspective – I think we’re all kind of on a little bit of a timeout, in a way, to be self-reflective and getting back in touch with who you are and what you love. If you want to think about where there can be silver linings here, where there are very, many fewer distractions there otherwise would be. You know, obviously we’re dealing with a lot of folks who are in a lot of transition and really worried about things. But there are – I think it’s important to take moments to think about what you love. I was thinking about the community garden, and that, you know, many students found a lot of joy in the garden, but are there ways they can, you know, cultivate a small garden where they are? Even if it’s three plants on your desk, you know? Or things like if people did love music or art – where are you making space in your new space to have a space for art, to have a space for drawing, for journaling, for reflecting on who you are and who you want to be in this process and how you want to be helpful and purposeful in this time of, really, global transition. Where can you find your purpose and meaning? And where are you your most self? I think those are really important things to ask as we’re trying to find our new normal.
Dr. Bob Bilder 19:04
Just to jump onto that I just wanted to add that – for those of us who are sequestered with our family members, this actually creates an amazingly great opportunity to really be in touch with those family values and family connections that sometimes are not as attended to as we’re rushing around each doing our own thing. So I think that it’s a component of that finding purpose and meaning. Most of us, often, will affirm the most important thing to us is family and friends, among all of our relationships, and now’s the time that really brings that to the fore.
Dr. Nicole Green 19:36
I think it’s also a time, you know, there’s so much struggle right now. If you have the opportunity to take a moment for gratitude of where you are; but also just to kind of hold for yourself the people that really are in a lot of transition, and a lot of pain, and a lot of grief, and not dismissing it, but taking the opportunity to walk in that life with them, too, so that they’re not alone in it. You know, if you know people who are struggling, I think the tendency is to kind of back away, especially when we’re all in such a time of transition ourselves. But who can you support? Who can you let vent? Who can you validate? Who can you reach out to to say, “I see you?” Even your favorite restaurant place – can you leave a note, you know? And just say, I appreciate you, and I’m thinking of you, so that we are demonstrating that we see each other.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 20:25
That’s really lovely. Those are really actionable, lovely thoughts. And I’ve heard Governor Cuomo in New York say thank the grocery person, thank the postman, thank the policeman, thank the doctor, thank the nurse, thank the aid – all of these people are putting theirselves out there, keeping the engine running for us. So, I do appreciate also both of your recognition that there are people out there that are in a lot of pain. And basic needs, I know, is one area that really needs all those basic needs need to be met. And I know that some people who were struggling before this are even going to be struggling more, and then there’ll be new members of that struggle, as well. And so what can we do as a community – UCLA community – how can we help support our close and larger community in helping them address some basic needs?
Dr. Nicole Green 21:26
Well, I know on the Student Affairs side, there’s so much that we’re trying to do to make sure that there are basic needs, at least, for the students. I’m worried about staff and faculty – honestly staff probably most. And I know that there are so many students in so much turmoil, and I do think one of the first things is to get the word out; that they should reach out, that they don’t have to struggle with this alone, that the university is working not only amongst the UC system, but also with local government, and federal government, and state government to try to understand what we can do to support students. And, you know, Student Legal Services is waiving fees, CAPS is extending session limits, we’re trying to find appropriate housing for folks who need it. So if students – one thing I would just say to the students listening is to reach out and share what you need. And then beyond that, I do think that, really, the Healthy Campus Initiative can really start to think about “how can we be a resource for students and staff around all of the different needs that are coming down, as a result of the financial crisis around this?”
Dr. Bob Bilder 22:27
Yeah, these are going to be, you know, huge issues as we start the spring quarter, almost immediately, next week. At the same time, I’m really, acutely concerned about our healthcare workforce, as we see, over the next few weeks, probably a major surge, for which, you know, no one can be fully prepared. And, you know, we can all pray that Los Angeles will be doing a great job in mitigating the curve; but at the same time, I think we have to know – I already see our healthcare workforce really being pushed to the limits. And I was inspired to see in Barcelona how everyone got together at 10pm each night, went out on their balconies, and applauded for the healthcare workers who are really at the frontlines of taking care of people. And so I hope that we can carve out special time and effort to recognize and reinforce our healthcare workers at this time.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 23:24
Yeah, those are all really good comments and insight into what we’re doing currently. And as I said, there is a GoFundMe page now for the health workers, actually for all of Los Angeles – World Central Kitchen, the nonprofit that was started by that famous chef in D.C. is the home for that nonprofit that’s supporting these foods efforts. But also, our leadership is also providing free meals right now, for each shift in both hospitals, Santa Monica and Ronald Reagan. That’s a big step that started on Monday. And I think that there can be other forms and ways that we can support the frontline workers with gestures just like the thank you’s. So great advice. For the faculty who are coming back and going to be teaching, what kind of advice would you give them in terms of, you know, supporting the student bodies and also their own graduate student researchers, or other people, and their own staff.
Dr. Bob Bilder 24:25
So this is going to be a huge issue. I know we were focused a lot on the challenges that students are facing as they return for the spring quarter, but many of our faculty are not as familiar with the technology that they’re going to have to be deploying. They’re for the first time putting all the material online, so it’s compounding the many challenges they have. The one piece of advice that I would give right now is it’s probably most important to just pay attention to the students, and don’t worry about the technology as much. Just reach out to the students and forge that uniquely human, that personal touch – that may be the most important thing. And then, in addition, I think that, you know, working with Nicole, Gabriel Laredo made up a fantastic tip sheet. That’s like a one-pager that we’re going to aim to get out to all the faculty next week that highlights how to help students who are trying to cope with this. What is it that faculty can do? And we’ve heard in the past, that, you know, faculty feel challenged: A) because they don’t know exactly how to recognize the signs of distress among students very well – they’re not trained in it really; and B) if you do recognize those signs, then what do you do about it? So anyhow, Gabriel, Nicole, and the CAPS team, and Student Affairs have put together an amazing tip sheet that digests this information into a single page that faculty can refer to, and I think that will help at this time.
Dr. Nicole Green 25:46
Agreed. And I think, in addition to that, one thing that in this time of students getting bombarded with messages coming from who-knows-where, with no faces to any names; some of the departments could think about town halls where they virtually share information about how their department is thinking about learning, you know, at this time. I think faculty should spend some time in the beginning of their class just going over and explaining why they’re doing what they’re doing, so students can kind of hang on to a rationale and feel some humanity around it. I think that, you know, faculty should make themselves open to suggestions and be clear about what the expectations are. Sometimes transparency goes a long way, and really helping students to understand why you’ve thought about it this way or that way is also very, very helpful. But also, I think, really, what’s probably most meaningful is for people to feel like there’s a human behind this, because we’re just so far apart, yet, you know, with zoom and with having to do this virtually. But I think it’s very important for faculty to be maybe more transparent than they otherwise would be, and more accessible to questions and office hours and things like that, so that we’re all getting a hang of this.
Dr. Bob Bilder 27:06
There’s one other thing just I’ve heard faculty being anxious about what’s going to happen to their tenure decisions or advancement, and they should know that academic personnel is well aware of this. And so it’s going to be possible for people to, you know, put a pause on their tenure clocks, etc. And everyone understands what everyone is going through at this time, and it’s going to be considered seriously. And people, I think, the last thing they should need to worry about is whether or not they’re going to make that next advancement at this time.
Dr. Nicole Green 27:37
And I wanted to say one other thing. I mean, faculty are in this, too. They’re trying to teach classes, and their kids are home, and they’re trying to turn on a dime their curriculum, and trying to figure out: where can I do this? And how can I do this? And so I also want to just inspire some grace around the whole process for everybody; that this is a new normal, it’s not going to be 110%, but everybody’s working hard. And I think it’s important for as much as faculty, staff, and students can be okay with sharing, like, “hey, these are some of the challenges that I’m up against,” it might help everybody feel less that it’s something about “you didn’t see me” – like it’s more that they’re all in their own transition.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 28:19
This is amazing advice. I think we’ve covered a lot of ground between faculty, staff, students. We’re going to be sure to link resources at the end of this podcast, so you can all get more details about what Dr. Builder and Dr. Green have been talking about. And I’d like to finish this incredibly informative conversation with a question to both of you: what keeps you up at night?
Dr. Bob Bilder 28:44
My dog, barking.
Dr. Nicole Green 28:47
You know, this is just so unprecedented; it’s so surreal. And to be very honest with you, I think just the jarring nature of the complete transition of all of our lives is a lot to process. And it’s taking my brain a lot of time to process this new normal. So if anything, it’s really just thinking about, not just myself, but the whole, really the world, is in a lot of transition, for better or for worse.
Dr. Bob Bilder 29:15
I think that’s a huge challenge is, you know, given that we’re in helping professions, as psychologists, we’re now in a time of crisis, where our biggest responsibility is saying “what can we do that is going to be of the greatest value?” And so, ‘what keeps me up at night?’ is thinking, “Well, what is the thing I should be doing tomorrow?” That is really the most important thing right now. There are just so many opportunities to do things. Prioritizing what’s going to be of the greatest value, to the greatest number of people is really hard.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 29:43
So what have you been prioritizing?
Dr. Bob Bilder 29:45
Well, for me, it’s – we have a community of neuropsychologists around the country and trying to figure out how to do teleneuropsychology. And for people not familiar with neuropsychological assessment, it’s – you know, it’s designed to be a face-to-face kind of a profession. But it’s a real challenge. How do we help all the people who are getting neuropsychological exams? There’s about 500,000 neuro-psych exams done around the country every year. And so right now we’re working with some inter-organizational work groups to try to put together recommendations that will help neuropsychologists around the country. And then we’ve got our, you know, a couple hundred psychology, you know, faculty, staff and trainees down campus; and we’re trying to figure out how to work with them, how to help the students, how to help the patients, and how to help them help others using telehealth. The entire psychiatry department has gone basically from, you know, 0 to 60 in 1.5 seconds doing telehealth – moved 90 to 95% of visits to tele-psychiatry, tele-psychology, tele-neuropsychology within a two week period.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 30:53
Congratulations. That’s huge!
Dr. Bob Bilder 30:54
So that’s been time consuming and – but we hope is helpful.
Dr. Nicole Green 30:59
I’ll add to that – the same is true on the CAPS side and the Student Health Services, as well. And I think that’s where my priority is – my staff, we’ve gone completely to telehealth in two weeks. And, you know, now they’re back-to-back in telehealth meetings on Zoom. Hearing the story, after story, of all these transitions and all of the related distress – and you know, we’re thinking about the healthcare workers who are doing the kind of physical health, in-person work, and I’m so grateful to them. But I’m also aware of the mental health workers out there who are holding all these people, and all of this anxiety, and depression, and distress. So those are probably my priority right now – are the mental health clinicians on the ground trying to figure out a way to still support and to continue to support the students here on campus.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 31:53
Wow. You guys are doing just amazing work out there, keeping your own staff together, but also helping others, students, staff, faculty health professionals. Thank you so much, both of you, because without you two, I think that we wouldn’t have this kind of focus of, not just treatment, but promoting health and well-being in its broadest sense and thinking about some of these upstream solutions that are benefiting all of our campus constituents and beyond. So before we end this podcast, is there anything else that you want to add before we sign off?
Dr. Bob Bilder 32:33
Thanks to you, Wendy, for organizing and leading us in the Healthy Campus Initiative. I think it’s really a model program and is the kind of thing that really is making a difference, so that people are seen, and are heard, and are thought about at times like this; it’s particularly valuable. Thank you, Wendy.
Dr. Wendy Slusser 32:54
Thank you for tuning in to “6 feet apart,” a special series of the LiveWell podcast. Today’s episode was brought to you by UCLA’s Semel Healthy Campus Initiative Center. To stay up to date with the rest of the episodes in this special series and to get more information on maintaining your emotional, physical, and social well-being during COVID-19, please visit our email@example.com/livewellpodcast. Thank you, and stay remote.